Another Road Trip

Just got back from Door County in north east Wisconsin for a long weekend and I am happy to say we completed the road trip without any issues. Many many miles and the very first ferry ride for my wife and I as well as the first ferry ride for our Pilot.

Pics of our ride on the ferry to Washington Island along with other pics from our time in Door county can be seen here.

Did we discover another recall?

I thought it was hilarious that we had so many problems with the moonroof before Honda finally admitted there was a problem and issued a recall. No problems with that for over a month by the way (knocking on wood). But I think we might have stumbled across another recall issue. Around the same time we had the moonroof issues, I posted about a brake problem. See that post here and here.

Well we were driving in my mother-in-laws 2010 Pilot EX-L and heard an unsettling familiar noise. Sure enough it was the same exact same noise we were hearing from our brakes during our road trip 7 months earlier.

I am interested to see how this scenario unfolds.

Fixed???? At least for now.

We just left the dealership after waiting for about 90 mins (not the 65 mins we were told) and the service rep told us everything went fine. We should be all set from here on out. We got into our car and as we drove off, we decided to give the moonroof a little test, sure enough it worked the first time and every time after that. The moonroof now seems to be fixed, for now :)

1 hour and 5 min appointment

So my wife called the dealership to make an appointment this upcoming Saturday for an oil change as well as the recall repair. The phone rep told her we will not get a loaner because the repair will only take 1 hour and 5 mins even though the letter stated 4 hours/half day. I know..... odd time estimate, but oh well. We will just go in and wait around until it is done.

Recall Letter

So as promised, here is a copy of the recall letter. I love how it mentions "the moonroof may reverse itself while closing", which is the problem we have been having for months now. We plan to take it in and drop it off for the half day the weekend of August 28th. Hopefully it all goes smoothly.

Recall.....Finally

So we just got a recall letter in the mail today. It is for a recall on the moon....... wait for it. ......... roof. That is right ladies and gents, Honda finally admits there is a problem with the moonroof. One of the symptoms is the moonroof stopping and reopening while trying to close it. Imagine that. I will post the recall letter soon.

Road Trip

Just returned home from a road trip in my mother-in-law's Pilot and happy to say there were no issues at all. However, we still have issues with the moonroof on ours as I have stated numerous times.

Nothing Unusual

The Pilot has pretty much been performing great with no issues (other than the usual moonroof problem). As usual, the moonroof closes fine sometimes, fails to close on the first or second try other times, and seems to act differently when the car is in park, drive, and reverse. But other than that, no problems here (knock knock) ....... as i knock on wood.

Recurring Issue

We continue to have issues with the moonroof. About 25% of the time it wont close on the first try. And of that 25 percent of the time, it wont close on the 2nd try about 10 percent of the time.

Iowa Roadtrip #2 = Success

This past weekend we drove down to Keokuk, IA to pick up our new puppy. The drive went great and we didn't encounter any problems with the Pilot. We still continue to get the moonroof closing issue described in this post, but other than that so far so good.

For those who are interested, here is a link to my flickr page where you can find pics of my new puppy.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaimem26/collections/72157624063565001/

Iowa Roadtrip # 2 - what's in store???

Well we are planning another 1 day road trip which will consist of about 10 to 12 hours of driving. I hope we don't have any issues with the car. But if we do, believe you me.... I will post them all.

Closing, Opening, Closed

On two separate occasions today we tried to close the moonroof and when it got to the point where it hit the wind guard and starts to push it down, the moonroof stops closing and opens back up. Then on the 2nd attempt to close the moonroof, it closes without any issues.

Very strange logic in that system.

Fuel Cap

Didn't have time to drop the car off over the weekend so my wife took it in today after work. At first they told her it wouldn't be the gas/fuel cap not being tight enough, cause that will usually show up with a message indicating the fuel cap.

After about an hour and all the "tests" they claimed to perform, they informed my wife that the engine light was on due to the fuel cap not being tightened enough. They reset the codes and she was good to go.

Interesting.....

Emissions problem?

Turned the car on this morning and the engine light came on with a message that said "Check Emissions System". We haven't filled the gas tank in a couple of days so I wouldn't think it would be caused by a loose gas cap, but I tightened it anyway as the owners manual suggests. If it doesn't turn off by later this afternoon, we will have another trip to the dealership.

Road Trip = Problem Free

Well we just got back home from a mini road trip to Keokuk, IA to pick out a new puppy. It was about a 10 hour round trip drive and i am happy to say we had no problems. But then again we didn't use the moonroof much.

Moonroof Fail.......again

So it happened again. Four times in a row the moonroof wouldn't close earlier today. The vehicle happened to be in "Park" at the time. Zara decided to try putting the Pilot in gear and give it another try. Sure enough, with the car in "Drive", the moonroof closed without a problem.

Sounds like some great programming by the engineers over at Honda.

Fluke or sign of things to come?

Well, the moonroof decided to not close correctly today. It only happened once and we couldnt get it to happen again. We had just went into reverse and then hit the button to close the moonroof and it didn't work. I hope it was a fluke.

Day 1 - Moonroof still working

Just wanted to say that the moonroof is still working about 24 hours after we picked it up.

Finally!!!

Matt called at 2:40pm cst to let me know the Pilot is all put together and it is ready for us when we want to pick it up. He said moonroof still isn't malfunctioning, brake pedal isn't making noises anymore, and the rear hatch is now "aligned" and all put together and the piece with the scratches has been replaced.

We picked up the vehicle at about 8pm cst and to our surprise everything seemed perfect. I hope this lasts. The car has now been in the dealership for 16 days in the month of April.

Day 16

I just received a call from Matt at McGrath Honda. He apologized for not having the car to us yesterday, but it wasn't done and he gave me an update of the brake pedal clicking and the rear hatch.

Brake Pedal - He stated his Manager drives the same model and took our car for a test drive. He agreed that the noise was louder than his model still after they lubricated the nylon strip i mentioned in an earlier post. They decided to swap out the mechanism which disengages the gear shifter which is making the loud clicking noise from the managers demo car to our car. Not sure that is the correct approach, but as long as it works properly and doesn't make the noise, I guess that works for me.

Rear hatch - They received the part and once they finish the brake pedal work they will get that piece replaced and re-align the hatch properly.

I asked him about the scratches and other paint/body damages which was caused due to this issue. He stated that he would have the technician take a look at it because he didn't notice it when we first brought the car in.

He hopes to have our Pilot back to us by tonight but will call me with an update either way by the end of the day.

Lemons anyone?

After some consideration and some research on the Illinois Lemon Law, I think I might consider submitting a claim for the car. So far they have had 4 attempts to fix the moonroof, and it seems that more and more things just seem to go wrong with the car. It has also been in the shop for 15 days so far in the month of April alone. I think that would qualify based on the info at http://www.illinoisattorneygeneral.gov/consumers/lemonlaw.html

Day 14 without the Pilot

Matt called this evening to let me know we should be OK to pick the car up tomorrow. He mentioned that they should receive the part in the morning and will work to install it and re-align the hatch properly. Also, after the reset on the moonroof, he has tested it every morning and night and he hasn't had any problems.

Another weekend without the Pilot

11:00am cst - Ron from American Honda Customer Service called back and I informed him of all the previously unfixed issues as well as the new issue with the rear hatch. He didn't have much to say, just that he would follow up with the dealership to make sure the car is performing and functioning as designed.

12:45pm cst - Just received a call from Matt at McGrath Honda. Here is what he had to say on the three issues:

Moonroof - They took a look last night and reprogrammed it so it would close. They are going to have the technician go through the cycle of testing again that Matt performed when we dropped it off (open and closing while car is off, on, in park, and in gear).

Rear Hatch - They can obviously tell the hatch is not aligned properly. They ordered new parts and will replace the broken piece and re-align the hatch properly.

Brake pedal - The technician compared the noise to another Pilot and confirmed ours was making noise. He lubricated the nylon strip and according to Matt "you will still hear it but it is 30 million times quieter."

He hopes to call us tomorrow to pick up the car, but not sure yet when the parts will arrive.

Loaner # 3 & new service rep Matt

9:20am cst - I called Honda Customer Service again to speak to Ron the case manager and explain what has now happened with the rear hatch. I left a voicemail.

11:15am cst - I called McGrath Honda again to schedule a service appointment. They transfered me to their offsite reservation center. This is the same reservation center which promised us a loaner one one occasion and we arrived at the dealership to find out there was no loaner available for us. I explained this to her and she assured me we would get a loaner this time.

I didn't want to take her word for it because of my previous experience so i called the dealership and spoke to Jeff (or Geoff, not sure). He said there shouldn't be a problem getting us a rental today at 4:30 when we came in.

4:30pm cst - Dropped into McGrath Honda and worked with a new service rep Matt. He played with the moonroof for about 15 minutes until he could replicate the issue on demand. It seems it is only having issues when the car is on. We moved on to the rear hatch issue and he was completely confused and baffled about that problem. He said they would look into it. Then i explained the issue with the brake pedal, and just like service rep J, he seemed to just dismiss the clicking noise and tried to explain that this noise is supposed to be there, even though we explained this noise was not occurring when we first bought it or in my mother-in-laws vehicle, or any other Pilot on the lot.

Matt was helpful and told us he would get us taken care of. Shortly after that we drove off in a Honda Accord as a loaner.

At this rate we would have driven all 10 models within the next few months. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

Was that supposed to break off?!?!?!?

Today was a very eventful day, and not in a good way.

The moonroof malfunctioned once again and a few more times throughout the day but not every time. We called the dealership at about 5pm cst but they said they didn't have any loaners so we decided to call back the following morning to see if we could drop off the car and get a loaner.

And here goes the good stuff

At about 7:30pm cst we stopped for dinner and my wife mentions that when we take the car in we have to tell them about the rear hatch which is making a snapping sound as it opens and closes and it has gotten worse over a few days. She opens it to shw me and closes it and to my surprise it was much louder than I expected. She opens and closes it a few more times as I watch closely to see if I can determine where the noise is coming from. I think I see the issue and ask her to open it again and as she does.........

BOOM!!!!

A piece of plastic about 3 inches by 2 inches cracks off the top of the car near the hinge of the rear hatch on the upper passenger side. Below are some pics of the piece of plastic as well as the hinge area of the broken side and the good side. It can easily be seen with the naked eye that the side that is broken is at least 1/8 of an inch lower than the other side. Somehow, the rear hatch on my 4 month old Honda Pilot is crooked.

Here is the piece that cracked off




Here are some pics of the bad side




Here are some pics of how it should look




We immediately called service rep J back to tell him about our latest problem and he simply said "Ok, we will have to look at that."


All the pics can be seen here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaimem26/sets/72157623815750113/

Longest two business days ever!!!

Over 1 week after I called America Honda Motor Customer Service, Ron called me earlier today (I assume he is the case manager, however he didn't say that he was). He asked how the car was doing and he understood they fixed the problems and we got the car back. I told him that the moonroof malfunctioned again the night after we picked up the car. He said if we still have the problem then we shouldn't hesitate to call service rep J back and get it looked at again. He also said he would put that information in my case file.

Not long at all

That didn't take long at all. The moonroof once again failed to close properly tonight. We decided to give it some more time before we take it back in (i mean we would actually like to have some time with our own car for a change). Maybe waiting a while will give Honda more time to determine how to fix the problem.

Also, ever since we picked the car up there is a noticeable "click" sound every time we press in the brake. Once the brake pedal reaches the point where it disengages the gear shifter to allow shifting out of park, that is where we hear it. There was no noticeable click when we first purchased the car and the Pilot my mother in law bought (based on our recommendation) doesn't make that noise either.

Really, Two Business Days?!?!?!?

So I just wanted to give an update on the call from that regional case manager from Honda Customer Service.

OH YEAH, that's right. I can't give you an update because it has been 6 days (4 business days) and i still haven't received a call back.

This is supposed to be their customer service? I was told two business days. Could they have meant 2 business days after the weekend?

Fixed......for now

I just got a call from service rep J and he said the car is ready to be picked up. He said there are no more sounds to be heard from the brakes and as for the moonroof, the wind guard is back on (wooohoooo) and it is closing every time without any issues.

My question is, how long will that last?

Great Forum

Just wanted to throw out there that the people over at http://www.hondasuv.com have been great. I was able to find out that others are having similar issues with the moonroof on 2010 and 2011 models and many of them seem to agree with me about the fix HACK was unacceptable.

Big thanks to that site and the great members.

Moonroof Motor = New

3:10pm cst - Service rep J called once again to let me know their first attempt (re-install the wind guard they originally took off and reset/update the moonroof software/settings) didn't work. Their next step is to replace the moonroof motor all together. He said he would call me tomorrow to let me know when the part will be in because he wasn't quite sure.

Courtesy Update Call

I received a call from service rep J this afternoon. He wanted to let me know they are still working on the car and that they will have to keep it until Monday or Tuesday. He said he would call back when we can come pick up the car.

"Thanks for the update J."

Loaner Car # 2 - Ridgeline

I received a call from service rep J today and he told me we can bring the car in first thing tomorrow morning. I asked if we could bring it in tonight and he said that would be fine. We brought it in and got a sweet Honda Ridgeline as a loaner.

New call and No call

9:45am cst - I called America Honda Motor Customer Service and Spoke to Yolanda. She stated she would forward my call to a regional case manager and I would be contacted within two business days.

3:30pm cst - Still no call from service rep J.

What a HACK

5:30ish pm cst - Recieved a call from J at McGrath Honda that our vehicle was ready to be picked up. So i call my wife and let her know.

She picks up the car and as she is driving away she hears the break pedal squeaking again. She decides to drive around the neighboorhood again just to make sure. It is definitley still happening so she takes it back. Before she does, she checks the moonroof. When she opens it she notices something strange but cant put her finger on it. After she opens it and closes it a few times, she realizes that the pop-up wind guard is gone. She looks at the paperwork and it states "Tech line advised to remove the wind guard to fix the issue". Based on this logic, i should just drive with the radio really loud so i dont hear the issue with the brake pedal anymore.

When she gets back the service confirms that this was the fix hack for the moonroof then he jumps in the car to check out the brakes. As they start to drive away (not even outside of the service building, they hear the squeak.

Zara sits in waiting area for approx 30 mins and is told they need to order a new part. She needs a booster for the brakes. Rather than keep her car until they fix it the correct way and giving her the same rental she just returned, they give her back the car and claim it is safe to drive (even though it has brake problems).

I was unhappy with many things about this so as soon as she came home i jumped in the Pilot and drove back to the dealership. I was very upset and had many questions for them. Here are some of the main questions and their responses (paraphrased to make it as short as possible):
Me: I understand you need to order a new part, how long will that take?

Rep J: I will order it in the morning and it would take a day or two, i will call you as soon as i order it to let you know.Me: Is this going to be how the rep called us last time, which by the way we still havent received a callback to the message we left on Wednesday.

Rep J: No, we will call you because I have an open ticket for the vehicle.

Me: There was an open ticket last time also, and we didnt hear from you on Monday or Tuesday like we were told. We actually called on Wednesday and left a message and nobody ever called us back.

Rep J: I guarantee we will call you back.

Me: Is the vehicle safe to drive? This concerns me that you are sending my wife back out in a car that has issues with components in the braking system.Rep: Yes it is absolutley safe to drive.Me: It still doesnt sit well with me, couldnt you hold on to the car until you fix it the right way and let us keep the loaner. (and this is where i just get furious)

Rep J: There are none.

Me: What!?!?!? What about the one we just returned less than an hour ago?

Rep J: That one has to go to another customer in the morning.

Me: hahaha (simply laughed in disbelief)

At this point I was just boiling. But again, I stayed calm and was very nice to the rep.

Me: And about the moonroof? Is that the only solution, remove that piece?

Rep J: Yes, that is what the tech line told us to do.

Me: I am dumbfounded on that one, that seems like a hack to me, not a fix.

Rep J: We do that all the time for plates and other things like on exhaust systems and transmissions.

Me: Ok, so what is the purpose of that peice, since Honda included that as part of the car they obviously did that becuase it served a purpose.

Rep J: The engineer said all it does is cut down on wind noise.

Me: Ok, so all the other Pilots out there get to drive around with less wind noise but I dont becuase you cant figure out how to fix it properly.

Rep J: According to the tech line this is the correct fix.

Since we didn't seem to be getting anywhere, I decided I would discuss this again when we come back with the car for the brakes.

8:30ish cst - We are about to leave the dealership and I was told the booster part would be ordered Wednesday morning and Jerry would call to let us know it was ordered and how long it would be.

On the drive home, we decided to take a look at how much wind noise that pop-up wind guard acutally blocked. As we were driving only about 30 to 35 mph, there was a significant increase in the amount of wind noise as there was when the part was still installed. And it wasn't just wind noise, because we had the windows closed, we had that high vibration pressure feeling of the wind entering the car (similar to only having one window open in a car while driving at high speeds). We did not have this issue while on our road trip just 2 weeks earlier.

Soccer Mom

9am cst - Dropped the Pilot off at McGrath Honda and spoke to a new service rep. We will call him J. We explained that we have not received any call back and we showed him all the issues (moonroof and brakes). He asked us to wait a few mins in the customer waiting center, which by the way is one of the nicer waiting areas of any other dealership I have ever been in.

He brought us back into service and said "The part actually just came in this morning, that is why you didn't get a call." I am not buying that, but whatever, we are there and they will fix the car.

He provides us a loaner as promised. A sweet Honda Odyssey. Time to run some errands "Soccer Mom" style.

Where is my master cylinder???

Still no call from Honda that the part was in stock and no call back from our voicemail message.

Starting to have the same issue again with the moonroof as well. Obviously their original fix didn't work.

3pm cst - Since we are having problems again with moonroof, I call McGrath Honda and ask tell them i am bringing the car in first thing Saturday morning to get both issues fixed. I spoke to a service rep name.... well, let's just call him Mr. T, and he said "Ok, i see the master cylinder was ordered, now we just need to set an appointment, when did you want to bring it in?". Strange thing is that he didn't say if it had actually arrived yet or not.

He set us up for Saturday morning at 9am and he assured us they would have a loaner this time.

Taking Initiative

Still haven't heard back from Honda, so my wife called in and asked for the service department.

Surprise, surprise...... no rep, just voicemail.

We leave a message to see if the master cylinder had been delivered yet since we didn't receive a call yet.

Still no call yet

Still nothing.....

No Call Yet

Still waiting for a call from the dealership, we haven't heard anything.

Back from Vacation - Dealership Time

3:15pm cst - I called the service department at my dealership to set an appointment to havethem check the moonroof and the brake issue. They agreed to 4pm and told me they would have a loaner car when my wife stopped in.

4:00pm cst - My wife brought the car in and found out that they do not have a loaner car for her so she was forced to wait around to see if they can find out the problems with the car.

They finally come and tell my wife that all they had to do the for the moonroof was reset the motor and that worked.

As for the brakes, she was told they had to order a new master cylinder and it would be Monday or Tuesday at the latest before it arrived. She was also told that we would receive a call when it does arrive so we can schedule the service appointment.

Mid Vacation Scare and Noisy Brakes

We are in the middle of our wonderful road trip to Tennessee with our niece and our puppy and we aren't too happy.

Brakes were making the same noise off and on so far the entire trip and earlier today we got another big scare....... the moonroof wouldn't close when we were at an elevation of 5046 where the weather is unpredictable (roads were closed yesterday due to snow and ice, over a foot). The moonroof seemed to try to close but as soon as it hit the wind guard, which usually would just go down as the moonroof slides closed, it would open back up. We finally realized we could get it to close if we held the wind guard down from the outside until it was just about all he way closed.

Not to happy, but what are we going to do. We are on vacation and are going to make the best of it.

Brake Noise Begins

6pm cst - We were at the dealership earlier today because we referred my mother-in-law to purchase a vehicle from them and she was interested in a Pilot as well. She purchased a 2010 Pilot EX-L.

We were getting ready for our trip tomorrow and since we were at the dealership we thought we would have them check out a noise from the brake pedal we had been hearing off and on for a few days.

Just before we left the dealership at about 6:30pm cst, we asked a service rep to just take the car for a spin to see if he hears the brake noise (i rode with him around the parking lot). Of course the noise was nowhere to be heard.

And as usual, they can't fix the issue if they can't duplicate the issue.

3 Month Inspection

Took the Pilot in this morning for the 3 month inspection. We planned our first road trip to the Great Smoky Mountains in Tennessee so we wanted to make sure the car was good to go.

The service rep gave us the "OK" and we are excited to get on the road next week.